Kenneth John Hall

Enquiries relating to individual men and women who served with HM Light Coastal Forces; help with interpreting service records, or with tracing former comrades
Terri1
Seaman
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:38 pm

Kenneth John Hall

Postby Terri1 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:26 pm

Hi, thanks for letting us join this forum.
I am helping my wife research information about her late father (above).
He served throught ww2 and was part of Coastal Forces. We know he served in the Med and think he may have been on ML 579.
We do know that his boat was sunk by enemy bombing in October 1943 whilst hidding during daylight at a Greek island which we think was Leros.
His skipper was lost, but survivors got ashore with an injured crewman who later died. He is buried in a military cemetery on Leros we believe, and we have a picture of the grave as Ken revisited the island many years later.
The survivors were helped by locals and ferried island to island until rescued and taken to Alexandria.
With no boat Ken worked for a while in a Naffi and then as a dispatch rider through the Italian push.
We have some pictures of him and his time in Italy but nothing of his service at sea and we know very little. We would also like to know more about his boats history and anywhere else he served.
As with many of his time he didnt speak much of his war time service unless asked so we know only little.
We do belive however that Ken was a member of the RN CFV's.
Can anyone help please?
Andrew & Terri

jonco
Chief Petty Officer
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:47 pm

Re: Kenneth John Hall

Postby jonco » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:46 am

Hi Terri,
I am almost as new to this forum as yourself and others will give you better information but the following entries in Naval-History.net confirm the loss of ML 579

1.1943 -October 26 - Motor launch ML No.579 (75t, 3/6/43), sunk by aircraft, Leros island, Dodecanese

2.M.L. 579 was destroyed by bombing at Lipsos. Her two officers and two of her crew (n.b. were killed), the remaining thirteen being saved.

3.ML.579, ship loss

BAIN, James, Ty/Lieutenant, RNVR, MPK

COOKE, John M, Ty/Sub Lieutenant, RNVR, MPK

SANDISON, Francis A, Able Seaman, C/SSX 25956, killed

If you go to the CWG.org.uk (war graves site) and put in the relevant information - it should give you cemetery and grave location.
Not much I know - but all snippets help.

Brian Holmes
Commander
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:26 pm
Location: Portsmouth

Re: Kenneth John Hall

Postby Brian Holmes » Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:57 pm

I may have more but we can start with this

ML_579 James N Miller & Sons, East Shore, St Monance 3/6/43

Known Crew
Lt James Bain RNVR Killed in action 26/10/43. Buried in Rhodes War Cemetery Joint Grave 6. B. 1
SLt John Michael Cooke RNVR Killed in action 26/10/43 Age 21 Son of Arthur George and Kathleen Jessie Cooke, of Stanwick, Hampshire. Buried in Rhodes War Cemetery Joint Grave 6. B. 1
AB Francis Alexander Sandison C/SSX 25956 Killed in action 26/10/43 Age 22 Son of James and Margaret Sandison, of Forres, Morayshire
AB Augustus William Smith C/JX393277 Died 28/10/43 of wounds received 26/10/43 Age 22 Son of Augustus William Smith and of Florence Emily Smith, of Ponder's End, Middlesex Buried in Leros War Cemetery 3. C. 1

Wartime Activities
26/10/43 Sunk by aircraft at Leros, Dodecanese Islands

Terri1
Seaman
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: Kenneth John Hall

Postby Terri1 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:10 pm

Hi Brian and Jonco, very many thanks for the information you have provided, we didnt realise that they lost four members of that crew and from what you have written we can start to build a picture.
Kevin (admin) has provided us with documents to start us searching for his service records so we are sure we can fill in a lot of blanks.
It seems likely that he also served on other Coastal Forces boats as his service commenced in 1941 and he was demobed in 1947, but we have know knowledge at all on much else as yet, perhaps the service records will tell more.
Once again thanks for your help
Andrew & Terri

Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 501
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: Kenneth John Hall

Postby Admin » Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:55 am

Just to add another small bit of information, J. S. Guard in his book Improvise and Dare: War in the Aegean briefly mentions ML 579 as having been off of the Island of Arki (Arkoi) when she was attacked and sunk.

SOUZI
Seaman
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:58 pm

Re: Kenneth John Hall

Postby SOUZI » Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:16 pm

Dear Andrew and Terri,
I was very interested to read the posts and your interests.
I have just started researching my grandfather Lieutenant James Bain. I have some information about ML 579 similar to information posted.
I only could find out about the casualties ,of which sadly my grandfather was one. I am very interested to hear about the survivors.
I believe that there were twelve of which your father was one. I am shocked at the very young ages of these brave brave men.
Thank you for your posts.
Kind regards,
Susan

Terri1
Seaman
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: Kenneth John Hall

Postby Terri1 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:54 pm

Hi Susan, many thanks for your post, most interesting to actually have contact from a relative of Ken's shipmates (his skipper) Yes they were all so very young but that is the way of war, and we are very lucky that they all went off to do what they did. Very sad that your grandfather was lost, we understand that he is burried in Rhodes, have visited his grave? As said unfortunatly Ken never spoke much of his war hence this research.

We are sending off for Ken's service records, we do know some of what he did after 579 was sunk but we just dont know how long he was aboard her and what he did before joining her. We note that she wasnt in service for very long before sunk, perhaps that was the way of those fragile boats.

Would you have any pictures within your grandfathers things from that time? We have some pictures of Ken in uniform and with others but not specifically on 579.

We would be very pleased to here anything more that you have.

Best wishes

Andrew & Terri

Terri1
Seaman
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: Kenneth John Hall

Postby Terri1 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:06 pm

Hi all. It has taken a while but we now have the service record for my wife's father Kenneth John Hall, and if anyone can add anything extra from the following then we would appretiate the input.
His basic training was at HMS Glendower between Nov 1942 and Feb 1943
He then went to HMS Drake at Plymouth which we suspect was seamen training? between Feb1943 and Mar 1943
He then went to HMS St Christopher between Mar 1943 and April 1943 with a 6 day stint in between on ML133. We suspect this was cf training?
He then went to HMS Hornet at Gosport and immediatly on to HMS Excellent at Portsmouth for 5 weeks. We believe this to be for gunnery training as we have a photo of him in uniform with a sleave badge showing a single gun with star above and the letter 'A' below (anti aircraft)?
He then went to HMS Hornet for 4 weeks
He then joined ML 579 on 22nd June 1943 and was on her until she was sunk on 26th October 1943 off Leros. As 579 was built in June 1943 can we assume that he crewed her from UK to her operational area in the Med? We have this year been to Leros and have visited the war graves there where his shipmate A/B Smith is burried, very moving. Further information that we have found indicates that 579 was sunk on the first day of the very heavy German bombing of Leros at the time of the German invasion of the islands, however she weas actually sunk of the smaller island of Arki. Records and commemorations on Lerso also indicate that two Destroyers were sunk in the harbour area (one British and one Greek) also on 26th October.
He was then at HMS Mosquito at Alexandria on and off from Nov 1943 until May 1944 and during that time his records also show:-
He was 'lent' to Sidi Bishr any thoughts on what that is ?
ML 1083 from dec 1943 to May 1944
He was then at HMS Gregale, Malta fromMay 1944 to Mar 1945
The record then shows CFMB Adriatic (sic) we belive that the (sic) is an indication that the record is an exact reproduction of the original records but that the compiller doesnt know what that is. Anyone know what CFMB Adiatic is?
He is then shown as HMS Drake from Aug 1945 to Jun 1946 which is when he was 'released to shore'

Any help or explanations would be great -

Many thanks

Andrew & Terri

Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 501
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: Kenneth John Hall

Postby Admin » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:42 pm

Hello Andrew & Terri

I would imagine CFMB would stand for Coastal Forces Mobile Base. The situation in the Mediterranean in the latter stages of the war meant that CF units often worked in advance of the Allied front line, and so had to operate with the support of mobile bases rather than established ones in ports held by the Allies.

There are some basic details of the shore establishments to be found in the Mediterranean Bases map, whilst articles on the subject of Coastal Forces in the Adriatic will provide you with details of some of the place names and events involved.

SOUZI
Seaman
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:58 pm

Re: Kenneth John Hall

Postby SOUZI » Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:32 pm

Hi Susan, many thanks for your post, most interesting to actually have contact from a relative of Ken's shipmates (his skipper) Yes they were all so very young but that is the way of war, and we are very lucky that they all went off to do what they did. Very sad that your grandfather was lost, we understand that he is burried in Rhodes, have visited his grave? As said unfortunatly Ken never spoke much of his war hence this research.

We are sending off for Ken's service records, we do know some of what he did after 579 was sunk but we just dont know how long he was aboard her and what he did before joining her. We note that she wasnt in service for very long before sunk, perhaps that was the way of those fragile boats.

Would you have any pictures within your grandfathers things from that time? We have some pictures of Ken in uniform and with others but not specifically on 579.

We would be very pleased to here anything more that you have.

Best wishes

Andrew & Terri

SOUZI
Seaman
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:58 pm

Re: Kenneth John Hall

Postby SOUZI » Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:51 pm

Hello John and Terri,
I was very interested to read your last post. I have not sent for my grandfathers records as yet but will do so in next few weeks. The past year has been very hectic.
The information that you have gained about your fathers war is fantastic. I do know that my grandfather spent time in HMS St Christopher also, so they must have put the boat crew together up there.
I have come across a photo of my grandfather and another chap in navy whites. I can only think that it is Sub Lt John Michael Cooke . I have started a Cooke family tree on my ancestry site but have not managed to locate any relatives so that I can have identification of this picture.
My grandfather was very meticulous in logging events and has lovely photo albums . I cannot find any other pictures of the crew but thought you might like to see this one.
I hope all is well with you.
Kind regards,
Susan
Attachments
image.jpg
L to R. Sub Lt John Michael Cooke. Lt James Bain


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