Norman Tyldesley – MTB 91, ML 245 and ML 246

Enquiries relating to individual men and women who served with HM Light Coastal Forces; help with interpreting service records, or with tracing former comrades
colinwhowantstoknow
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Norman Tyldesley – MTB 91, ML 245 and ML 246

Postby colinwhowantstoknow » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:50 pm

Does anyone know anything of my uncle Frederick Norman Tyldesley of MTB 91 & later ML 245 246. Doing family research. I do hold some 1994 letters from some Free French comrades, which tells me some stuff, but does anyone remember him? It was a long time ago I know. Or how I may find out more.
Last edited by Admin on Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Changed title to add name for better indexing

Admin
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Re: Norman Tyldesley – MTB 91, ML 245 and ML 246

Postby Admin » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:35 pm

As you may already be aware, Telegraphist Frederick Norman Tyldesley was awarded the Croix de Guerre, though it appears the award was not announced in the London Gazette, so there is no ready way of knowing precisely what it was awarded for, beyond the work that MTB 91 was involved in, having been transferred to the Free French Navy.

Brian Holmes
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Re: Norman Tyldesley – MTB 91, ML 245 and ML 246

Postby Brian Holmes » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:19 pm

The reason for the Croix de Guerre is because individual RN telegraphists were assigned to join the French crews and the French awarded the medal to them.

MTB_91 Harland and Wolff, Belfast 12/10/42
For service in French MTBs
CdeG Tel Frederick Norman Tyldesley P/JX228668
CdeG Tel Padraig Seosarn Walsh P/JX154664

Known Crew
Tel Frederick Norman Tyldesley P/JX228668
Tel Padraig Seosarn Walsh P/JX154664

Wartime Activities
11/42 Free French
Handed over at HMS Hornet followed by work up at HMS Bee (Weymouth)
23rd MTB Flotilla Based at HMS Cicala (Dartmouth)
7-8/5/44 MTB 91, MTB 92, MTB 227 and MTB 239 are on patrol off Jersey.
2359 A convoy of two cargo vessels (3000 – 3500 tons) escorted by eight patrol boats is sighted. MTB 91, MTB 92, MTB 227 and MTB 239 start to move to the stern of the convoy to attack from down moon. The convoy alters course to enter St Peter Port.
Two boats are sent to make a noisy approach on the up moon side as a diversion whilst the other two attack. Four torpedoes are fired. One cargo vessel SS Bizon (ex Belgian, 750 GRT) is hit, explodes and sinks. Shore batteries on Guernsey open fire. MTB 227 is damaged MTB 227 is damaged by boats of Second Vp-Flotilla but evades. In MTB 227, the twin 0.5” turret is out of action and there is a fire in the engine room with one engine out of action. MTB 91, MTB 92 and MTB 239 make a second attack. Four more torpedoes are fired and one hit is claimed

Post War Fate
1946 Returned RN
21/9/48 Sold

Brian Holmes
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Re: Norman Tyldesley – MTB 91, ML 245 and ML 246

Postby Brian Holmes » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:22 pm

I presume he was in this one before MTB 91

ML_245 Sheerness Dockyard 14/7/41

Operation Neptune - for bravery and enterprise in safeguarding the passage of convoys during the invasion in Normandy
MID POMtrMch Arthur Ralph Fuller P/MX99525

Known Crew
TLt J Winthorpe-Young RNVR (Commanding Officer)
POMtrMch Arthur Ralph Fuller P/MX99525

Wartime Activities
7/41 Free French = St Guenole
1/7/41 20th ML Flotilla assembling at Portland
ML 123, ML 192, ML 245, ML 246, ML 247, ML 262, ML 267 and ML 268
2nd Division 20th ML Flotilla (Based on Portsmouth)
Convoy escort in English Channel
4/42 20th ML Flotilla (Based on Weymouth)
Convoy escort, patrols and Air Sea Rescue
8/42 Returned to Royal Navy Crew transferred to 23rd MTB Flotilla (Free French)
7th ML Flotilla
ML 131, ML 136, ML 152, ML 154, ML 182, ML 245, ML 248, ML 303, ML 347, ML 594, ML 599 and ML 904
Based on Portsmouth
Operation Neptune Invasion of Normandy
Navigation leader at Gold Beach
Paid Off
9/44 Recommissioned after major refit
13th ML Flotilla
22/10/44 Flotilla departs Pembroke Dock for the Far East
18/2/45 Flotilla reaches Bombay
Operations off the Arakan coast
11/5/45 Flotilla arrives in Rangoon

Post War Fate
2/46 Sold at Trincomalee
Burmese Navy
11/6/47 Sold at Singapore

Brian Holmes
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Re: My Great Uncle Norman on MTB 91 and ML 245 246

Postby Brian Holmes » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:24 pm

ML_246 Sheerness Dockyard 21/7/41

Known Crew
Lt N Hunt (Commanding Officer)
TSLt William John Baker RNVR
TSLt John Campbell Barry RNVR (3/6/44 - ) Served in HMS Howe as an ordinary seaman before being commissioned in 1944 and joining Coastal Forces Served in ML 222. First Lieutenant ML 246 1/5/44. 10th ML Flotilla and voyage to Bombay 10/44.
Ord Thomas Harris Davies D/JX302998 Died cause unknown 5/3/43 Age 36 Husband of Mary Catherine Davies, of Flint. Buried in Flint (St. Mary) Churchyard Extension Sec. D. Line 10. Grave 5

Wartime Activities
7/41 Free French = St Ives
1/7/41 20th ML Flotilla assembling at Portland
ML 123, ML 192, ML 245, ML 246, ML 247, ML 262, ML 267 and ML 268
2nd Division 20th ML Flotilla (Based on Portsmouth)
Convoy escort in English Channel
4/42 20th ML Flotilla (Based on Weymouth)
Convoy escort, patrols and Air Sea Rescue
8/42 Returned to Royal Navy Crew transferred to 23rd MTB Flotilla (Free French)
19/8/42 Operation Jubilee - Raid on Dieppe
SGB 5 (Grey Owl) ,SGB 9
MGB 50, MGB 51, MGB 312, MGB 315, MGB 316, MGB 317,MGB 320, MGB 321, MGB 323, MGB 326
ML 120, ML 123, ML 189, ML 190, ML 193,ML 194, ML 230, ML 246, ML 292, ML 309, ML 343, ML 344, ML 346, RML 513
6/44 Operation Neptune Invasion of Normandy
20th ML Flotilla Based on Portsmouth
Operation Neptune - Invasion of Normandy
ML 123, ML 146, ML 147, ML 151, ML 198, ML 205, ML 246, ML 247, ML 269, ML 297, ML 902 and ML 903
Navigation Leaders at Juno Beach
14th ML Flotilla
Arakan

Post War Fate
11/45 Burma RNVR
1/46 For disposal

colinwhowantstoknow
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Re: Norman Tyldesley – MTB 91, ML 245 and ML 246

Postby colinwhowantstoknow » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:57 pm

Well thankyou very much, to you all. Very interesting, I can take this on to the rest of the family. Its a shame how people forget. Its a credit to the RNCFV. I'll now have to research his 3 brothers. Not sure what they served in but all RN.
Thanks again. Anyone else with anything, please let me know.
Regards
Colin.

Popeye
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Re: Norman Tyldesley – MTB 91, ML 245 and ML 246

Postby Popeye » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:11 pm

Was Norman Tyldesley on ML245 or 246 in 1945?

The book '13th & 14th Fairmile Flotillas in Burma' tells the story of these two flotillas plus the 34th flotilla and their voyage from Pembroke Dock to Burma. It shows ML 245 in the 34th flotilla rather than the 13th. ML 245 came from the 7th ML flotilla to join the 34th, and ML246 came from the 20th flotilla to the 14th, both having served in UK waters since 1941.

It seems that the 34th flotilla sailed with the 13th and 14th as far as Trombay, near Bombay, and stayed there until Operation Zipper and sailed with Operation Zipper A from Trincomalee in Ceylon, and ML 245 reached Singapore after the Japanese surrender and was there until December 1945, was then in reserve until it was sold to Thailand in June 1947.

The 14th flotilla, including ML 246, took part in Operation Dracula which was the liberation of Rangoon on 2nd May 1945. 246 and 247 took part in Operation Roundwood on 6th September 1945, taking the surrender of the Japanese on Mergui Island, off the coast of southern Burma.

My father was a gunner on ML 246 from October 1944 onwards.

colinwhowantstoknow
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Re: Norman Tyldesley – MTB 91, ML 245 and ML 246

Postby colinwhowantstoknow » Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:41 pm

I think he was on ML 245, with the Free French as stated before.
Thanks for your interest, and great information.
What a fantastic site this is.
Colin H

graham reed
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Re: Norman Tyldesley – MTB 91, ML 245 and ML 246

Postby graham reed » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:25 pm

Hello

Looking through some old family photographs I found some photographs of boats labelled ML245 and other numbers, out of interest I googled this number and came across this website. I have no idea which family member took the photograph, but in the album there were quite a lot of photographs of boats!!

Hopefully I have attached the photograph below!!

Best

Graham Reed
Boat.jpeg

Admin
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Re: Norman Tyldesley – MTB 91, ML 245 and ML 246

Postby Admin » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:03 pm

Hello Graham

Thank you for your post to the forum. Sorry for the slight delay in getting it approved, a temporary measure in the light of recent spamming of the board. I believe the MLs shown here are actually First World War era boats, manufactured by the American company Elco. There were several hundred of these built and used for patrol and anti-submarine work. This leads to some confusion at times since they were all sold off at the end of that conflict, and when the Admiralty revived their use of the motor launch again in the Second World War, they looked to the British company Fairmile for their construction, and pretty much duplicated the full range of numbers used by the earlier boats. The WW1 Elco boats are distinguished by their shorter length — compared to the later Fairmile 'B' — and stepped deck design, with the wheelhouse raised above the level of the rear deck, while on the WWII launches the decks are flush from bow to stern.

Regards
Admin

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Re: Norman Tyldesley – MTB 91, ML 245 and ML 246

Postby Admin » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:27 pm

I thought it might be useful to provide a visual comparison between the motor launches of the First and Second World Wars

First World War Elco Motor Launch

Image
WWI Elco Motor Launch ML 516 © IWM (Q 63064)IWM Non Commercial Licence

Image
WWI Elco Motor Launch © IWM (Q 63063)IWM Non Commercial Licence

Second World War Fairmile B Motor Launch

Image
WWII Fairmile 'B' Motor Launch ML 469 © IWM (FL 25076)IWM Non Commercial Licence

Image
WWII Fairmile 'B' Motor Launch © IWM (A 23190)


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