MTB 495

Motor Torpedo Boats (MTB)
CAM
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MTB 495

Postby CAM » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:29 pm

What is known about the participation in combat 23/01/1945 MTB-495 and MTB-446? I only know that MTB-495 rammed some E-boat and was very badly damaged, one person died of his crew.
MTB .495, surface action. CALDER, George, Able Seaman, C/JX 317839, killed.
http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1945-01JAN.htm

CAM
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Re: MTB 495

Postby CAM » Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:16 am

Another question. A report of the fight the Germans write that fought with the MGB, although there is no MGB was not. There is a picture of MTB-447 without torpedo tubes. MTB can in this form out on patrol against E-boats?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... grant.html

Admin
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Re: MTB 495

Postby Admin » Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:17 am

MTB 447 started life as MGB 128 but was only completed one month prior to being changed to an MTB, so it would not have been built with torpedo tubes originally, and quite possibly may never have acquired them, since although the designation MGB was dropped for boats in Home Waters in 1943, not all of the former MGBs were equipped with torpedo tubes in the end despite the change of name. The MGBs would certainly have gone up against E-Boats as that was there primary role, as would MTBs with no torpedo tubes. MTBs equipped with torpedoes would have rammed an E-boat if given the opportunity, but E-boats were never their primary target, as torpedoes were considered too valuable a resource to use against small, fast, moving targets.

Brian Holmes
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Re: MTB 495

Postby Brian Holmes » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:16 pm

MTB_495 British Power Boat Co, Hythe Hampshire 15/11/44

For an attack on E Boats off the Thames Estuary 22/1/45
DSC TLt Robert George Eburah RNVR
DSM TLSea Dudley Hope Wade P/JX296830
MID SLt Stanley James Pickard RNVR
MID CMtrMch Clifford Bertram Thomas P/MX99181
MID TALSto John Fairbrother P/KX155004
MID AB George Calder C/JX317839 (Post)

Known Crew
TLt Robert George Eburah RNVR TSLt HMS St Christopher for MLs 5/7/41 TLt 10/4/42 Commanding Officer MTB 66 28/8/42 MTB 227 15/10/42 Commanding Officer MTB 88 06/43 (First Lieutenant 08/12/42 as a TSLt) HMS Mantis 24/1/44 ML 106 Commanding Officer MTB 495 and Senior Officer, 22nd MTB Flotilla 13/11/44 HMS Braganza (RN base, Bombay, India) 6/45 Also awarded an MID for service in MTB 88 a bar to his DSC for service in MTB 495 and a second MID whilst serving in HMS Beehive. Born in West Bromwich in 1916
TLt Stanley James Pickard RNVR TSLt 7/8/42 MTB 88 22/02/43 (later First Lieutenant) TLt 7/2/44 MTB 495 13/11/44 HMS Mayina (Colombo)
CMtrMch Clifford Bertram Thomas P/MX99181
TLSea Dudley Hope Wade P/JX296830
TALSto John Fairbrother P/KX155004
AB George Calder C/JX317839 22nd MTB Flotilla Based at Lowestoft MTB 495 For an attack on E Boats off the Thames Estuary 22/1/45 MID Killed in action 23/1/45 Age 21 Son of James and Margaret Polson Calder, of Edinburgh Edinburgh Eastern Cemetery Sec. H. Grave 1152

Wartime Activities
22nd MTB Flotilla
Based at Lowestoft
22-3/1/45 The Eighth S Boat Flotilla (KKpt. Zymalkowski) (S 194, S 196, S 197, S 199 and S 701) reach the Thames Estuary northeast of North Foreland and are in action with British escorts including HMS Seymour the corvette HMS Guillemot, and three groups of MTBs. MTB 495 is heavily damaged. S 199 is written off after colliding with S 701 near Tongue Sand Fort and is scuttled. MTB 495 collides with S701. S 701 remains out of action until the end of the war.

Post War Fate

CAM
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Re: MTB 495

Postby CAM » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:22 pm

MTB_495 British Power Boat Co, Hythe Hampshire 15/11/44

Wartime Activities
22nd MTB Flotilla
Based at Lowestoft
22-3/1/45 The Eighth S Boat Flotilla (KKpt. Zymalkowski) (S 194, S 196, S 197, S 199 and S 701) reach the Thames Estuary northeast of North Foreland and are in action with British escorts including HMS Seymour the corvette HMS Guillemot, and three groups of MTBs. MTB 495 is heavily damaged. S 199 is written off after colliding with S 701 near Tongue Sand Fort and is scuttled. MTB 495 collides with S701. S 701 remains out of action until the end of the war.

Post War Fate
In its report, the commander S-701 says only one ram his boat.
http://s-boot.net/pdf-dateien/Fight%20report%20s701.pdf
Zimalkowski says in his report on his radio communications with S-199 and E-boat oobschala nothing about the collision, but a sharp decrease in speed to nine knots.
http://s-boot.net/pdf-dateien/ktb%208Sfltl-engl.pdf

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Re: MTB 495

Postby Admin » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:05 pm

This incident is mentioned in Home Waters MTBs & MGBs by Len Reynolds who states that MTB 495 was hit in the engine room, but it is not clear by whom. A Coastal Forces member, Brian Hetherington, who attended S-boot flotilla reunions after the war, corresponded with the commanding officer of S 199, who told him, that he at first thought S 199 had rammed an MGB, but had in fact collided with S 701 and that 701 had later found a magazine on their deck from a forward gun which was clearly marked S 199, putting the source of the collision, and the reason for the sinking beyond doubt. There's no mention in this book of S 701 having had a second collision with another boat.

CAM
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Re: MTB 495

Postby CAM » Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:04 pm

Thank you very much. This is very useful information. It is unclear just how was damaged MTB-495. Maybe he collided with the frigate "Seymour" when E-boats attacked with torpedoes?

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Re: MTB 495

Postby Admin » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:31 pm

Reynolds appears to be saying that 495 took a shell to the engine room, which presumably could have come from one of the E-boats, or possibly friendly fire from one of the Royal Navy destroyers, though their co-ordination with the MGBs and MTBs using radar to vector them on to targets would have been geared towards avoiding such a possibility. If I can find out anything more specific about 495 I will post it here. I have just happened across another piece of information related to this incident, namely, that it was the Trawler, T 247, Neave, that picked up the survivors of S 199.

CAM
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Re: MTB 495

Postby CAM » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:12 am

Thank you again. I'll wait for information from you.

CAM
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Re: MTB 495

Postby CAM » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:47 pm

Read the assumption that the S-199 was destroyed by fire guns of the fort Toung Sands. In its report on this Zimalkovski not write. Maybe it's the fort fired and injured MTB-495?

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Re: MTB 495

Postby Admin » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:13 am

The section on this incident in the book Home Waters MTBs & MGBs by Len Reynolds reads as follows:
On that night three groups of E-hoats set out to attack the convoys; they were cleverly dispersed to different areas in order to stretch the thinly spread resources of available escorts. The first group evaded all patrols and were able to attack a convoy entering the Schelde estuary, damaging one of the merchant ships. They were then intercepted by two units of the 35th, vectored by HMS Stayner; the second unit engaged in ‘a fierce chase’ during which one E-boat was hit by a 6-pounder shell, and 495 was hit in the engine room.

The second group of E-boats headed towards Walcheren but were driven off. The third group of five E-boats was shadowed by aircraft but managed to shake them off; they then appeared near Tongue Sand off the Thames estuary, where they were briefly engaged by 451 (McGinty), 452 and 450, and then by the Tongue Fort. In a confused action one E-boat (S 199) was sunk, and several survivors were picked up

In a fascinating exchange of correspondence many years later, the C0 of S 199 vehemently asserted that his boat was sunk not by the Fort or the MTBs, but as a result of a collision with one of his own boats in the course of the action. To confuse the issue still further, the C0 of the anti-aircraft battery on the Tongue Fort describes his own pattern of fire as the E-hoats came very close, and submits ‘that it may be considered whether this E—boat was in fact sunk as a result of my fire’. The E-boat commander (who was taken prisoner) gave evidence for the collision: ‘l was convinced that I had rammed an enemy heat. but in fact we had collided with S 701, also fighting the MGBs.
So it would appear from the timeline of this narrative that MTB 495 was damaged in an earlier encounter with E-boats, that were part of a different flotilla to the one with S 199 and S 701 in it, who were at a different location.

CAM
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Re: MTB 495

Postby CAM » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:25 am

Thank you very much. Now move this battle completely understandable, since I have a report CO MTB 451.

the second unit engaged in 'a fierce chase' during which one E-boat was hit by a 6-pounder shell, and 495 was hit in the engine room.

It remains to determine who struck MTB-495. 6-pound shells fired only British MTB.

where they were briefly engaged by 451 (McGinty)



Is MTB-451 not commanded by Lt. Allen?

Guthlac
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Re: MTB 495

Postby Guthlac » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:10 pm

Reynolds does not say what calibre of shell hit MTB 495, only that a 6pdr hit one of the E-Boats.

CAM
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Re: MTB 495

Postby CAM » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:45 pm

Thanks for the clarification. So MTB-495 was damaged by fire E-boats. All of them were armed with 2x1 20mm cannon and one machine gun.
Went there ever again after this fight MTB-495 combat missions?

CAM
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Re: MTB 495

Postby CAM » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:50 pm

The section on this incident in the book Home Waters MTBs & MGBs by Len Reynolds reads as follows:
On that night three groups of E-hoats set out to attack the convoys; they were cleverly dispersed to different areas in order to stretch the thinly spread resources of available escorts. The first group evaded all patrols and were able to attack a convoy entering the Schelde estuary, damaging one of the merchant ships. They were then intercepted by two units of the 35th, vectored by HMS Stayner; the second unit engaged in ‘a fierce chase’ during which one E-boat was hit by a 6-pounder shell, and 495 was hit in the engine room.

The second group of E-boats headed towards Walcheren but were driven off. The third group of five E-boats was shadowed by aircraft but managed to shake them off; they then appeared near Tongue Sand off the Thames estuary, where they were briefly engaged by 451 (McGinty), 452 and 450, and then by the Tongue Fort.
In fact, of the sixteen E-boats 4th, 6th, 8th and 9th flotillas 7 of 4th and 6th flotillas did not find the goal, 4 of 9th sunk ship "Halo" (2365t), lags behind convoy in Antwerpen, and then had a collision with the frigate "Rioy" and the MGB, of the 8th fleet we have already spoken.
http://s-boot.net/sboats-km-channel45.html

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Re: MTB 495

Postby Admin » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:56 am

The Coastal Forces Log: PRO: ADM/199/2418 is an official document held by the Public Record Office at Kew, in London. The precise nature of the document, who compiled it and why, is not known. It consists of daily entries that are written in pencil, not typed, and gives lists of the patrols mounted each day, along with the boats assigned to them, and a brief digest of notable events, such as contact with E-boats, when they occurred.

These summaries were presumably drawn from action reports written by Commanding Officers of boats, that would have been sent to Nore Command from the various Coastal Forces bases of the boats concerned. So the document represents an overview of all the resources deployed for a day – something only Nore Command would know – coupled with highlights of action reports. The reference numbers for the action reports, and the bases from which they originated – Mantis at Lowestoft and Beehive at Felixstowe – are noted in the document, but I didn’t manage to find any record of these reports when performing a search on the PRO web site.

The action report written by the Commanding Officer of MTB 495, would provide the definitive account of who and what struck 495, if that report still exists anywhere. Not all of the action reports were kept after the war unfortunately, and it’s not known where exactly Len Reynolds obtained the information about the boat having been hit in the engine room, by what I can only assume was gunfire from an E-Boat.

The meanings for the various patrol prefixes are not known, beyond the obvious ones such as Tongue Sand (FB6), nor are the exact sea areas that the patrol numbers referred to, but it seems the boat units all had assigned areas in which to take up station, which they did not leave, even to pursue E-boats. Instead, they were controlled throughout by the Coastal Forces Control Frigates, who vectored the MTB on to targets, using their superior radar. This way you would not have had MTBs roving around unidentified in the sea lanes, thereby helping to prevent the possibility of friendly fire from the destroyer units. If the locations for the S-Boot flotillas for times during the night, could be matched with the areas for the patrol numbers given in this document, you might be able to work out which boats fought which exactly.

As may be seen from the document below, considerable resources were deployed by the Royal Navy each night in defence of the East Coast convoy route, with some 40 MTBs and 8 motor launches at sea on this particular night, along with the other resources. By this late stage of the war the Royal Navy enjoyed overwhelming superiority in the number of boats they had for use in the North Sea and Channel, and each E-boat sunk or captured weakened the Kriegsmarine still further.

Finally, MTB 495 did return to patrols, forming a Patrol 22 with MTBs 497, 470, 456 on 27th March, 1945, and may well have returned to service earlier than that. The boat survived the war and was placed on the disposal list in September 1945.

The Coastal Forces Log for 22nd January, 1945, held at the Public Record Office (PRO)
coastal-forces-log-22-01-1945.jpg
Coastal Forces Log for 22nd January 1945. © Public Record Office (ADM/199/2418)


Transcript of Coastal Forces Log for 22nd January, 1945
22nd January, Monday

Ostend A/S Patrols
FG 5 MLs 252, 286, 442, 467 sailed 05.25
FC 4

Z15 MTBs 679, 609
Z13 MTBs 773, 766
Z11 MTBs 721, 5002
Z9 MTBs 387, 390
Z7 MTBs 223, 233
Z5 MTBs 383, 392
Z3 MTBs 381, 382
53 buoy MTBs 445, 444
Patrol 12 MTBs 482, 478, 454, 447
Patrol 18 MTBs 495, 446, 496, 497
Tounge Sand (FB6) MTBs 451, 452, 450
FH3 4(HK4) MTBs 491, 485, 348, 355
Stein BK MLs 252, 286, 442, 467
FB2 MTBs 795, 768
FA8 MTBs 755, 775, 695
Patrol 16 MTBs 776, 756, 769, 771

Tongue Sand Fort FB6, Patrol 12, 16, 18 engaged E Boats}
C in C Nore 23/621A
Mantis 23/034A
Beehive 23/502A

MTBs 451, 452, 450, 495, 446, 454, 447 engaged
MTB 495 sustained damage 1 killed, 3 injured, returning, also MTB 446 returned, not in company.
The Work of the Coastal Forces Control Frigates
The Control Frigates had highly experienced former MTB Commanding Officers onboard them, helping to co-ordinate the actions between the destroyers and the MTB units, and this account for Lieutenant R G O Hudson DSC RNVR provides an insight into the organisation of these defensive patrols.
...Once passed as fully fit for sea service, he was appointed to HMS Hornet in May 1944, for special service with Captain Coastal Forces (CCF) Channel. It was here that he was involved in the development of radar control tactics for MTBs that would lead to the award of his DSC.

MTB actions were often highly confused, as the situational awareness of such small platforms was low, and in the run up to Operation Overlord there was concern at the risk of friendly fire accidents with so many allied vessels operating in the channel. As a result, officers from the MTB force were embarked in radar-equipped frigates which were directed to operate with groups of MTBs. The control officer would use early radar displays, known as Plan Position Indicators (PPIs) to vector MTBs onto prospective targets, deconflicting them with other allied operations.

The technique was implemented for the D-Day landings and continued during the subsequent allied advance along the French coast. During this period Hudson and his colleagues Lt P G Lee DSC* RNVR and Lt R G Fison DSC RNVR were embarked in a variety of frigates, including HM Ships Thornborough, Retalick and Seymour. In the Action Report, CINC Portsmouth, Admiral C Little, remarked “In general the reports indicate that the destroyer Commanding Officers found the control exercised from the frigates to be invaluable.”
The citation for the award of the Distinguished Service Medal to Able Seaman Billington, although for actions that took place on later dates, provides further insight into these operations.
‘For bravery, daring and skill whilst serving in H.M. ships Riou and Seymour and H.M.C. Motor Torpedo Boat 743 in successful engagements with enemy E-Boats.’

The original recommendation states:

‘During the night of 20-21 February 1945, H.M.S. Riou and Coastal Forces units controlled by her, engaged four separate groups of four E-Boats within the space of two hours, driving them all away from the swept channels. On the night of 24-25 February, three groups of E-Boats were similarly engaged, one E-Boat being stopped and subsequently sunk during the engagements, 22 prisoners being taken. On the night of 28 February-1 March, two groups of E-Boats were engaged and driven off by Riou and Coastal Forces controlled by her, the E-Boats suffering damage.

This rating is a Radar Operator using American-type S.L. Radar in H.M.S. Riou. During the above engagements Billington was outstanding in his accuracy and coolness in interpreting an extremely complex scan and reporting to the plot. At times he had to recognise and report as many as five targets at one time, all these targets moving at high speed, merging and separating as interceptions were made and actions broken off. He did not make one single mistake in his reports. This feat required calm and detachment on the part of Billington, combined with a quick and accurate memory, at a time when the ship was proceeding at full power with frequent alterations of course with the additional distractions of frequent gunfire from our own main armament and continuous R./T. chatter close to his position.’

CAM
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Re: MTB 495

Postby CAM » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:18 pm

Thank you very much.
Perhaps report commander MTB-495 is here

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... i=C6422899

but I can not see it, as well as report on the MTB-220.

Admin
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Re: MTB 495

Postby Admin » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:55 pm

Yes that looks like a record pertaining to the repair work that needed doing on the boat, but may not contain details of how the damage came about. Some of the Public Record Office records have been digitised and are available to view online, but most have not, so you would have to request a scan of this record if you wished to see it, for which there would be a charge. The only other way is to visit the archives in person, which is free.


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