MTB 670

[Croatian Navy]

Radar system on this photo seems tooo modern for 1944/1945. But maybe I am wrong.

[davidddnfp]

futher to my meeting with my researcher concerning mtb 670 he has pointed out on the subject of the torpedo tubes being removed ,notes made on dads comments show that the tubes were removed when they were on mine sweeping manoveres this was done for safety reasons because of the cables they used also our freind the commander had supplied us with a newspaper cliping telling the story of radio controled boats being loaded with high explosive against enemy shipping hence the aerials as for the number being removed it would be quite obvious looking at the story of the famous general for instance had the enemy known the number of the boat he was on it would have made an easy target as for the radar yes it does look modern i said this before another reason why the boat was highly protected we have been zooming in on the photo one can see the skipper checking out the aircraft the photo is being taken from with his binoculars also guns are pointing at the ready the crew are wearing navy blue ovaralls i remember dad saying this is what they wore because he always wore them for work i asked him once why he didn't wear something else that's when he explained he got used to them when on board the boat the tubes would have been replaced once mine sweeping was finished as i have said before there has been a lot of cover up one can't always beleive what one reads.

[cdsc123]

I think the boat in the photo is FPB 5020 (decommissioned 1956).

[Admin]

futher to my meeting with my researcher concerning mtb 670 he has pointed out on the subject of the torpedo tubes being removed ,notes made on dads comments show that the tubes were removed when they were on mine sweeping manoveres this was done for safety reasons...

SOE and The Resistance: As Told in Times Obituaries (ISBN 9781441119711) published just last year by Continuum Publishing, has a whole section on Yugoslavia, and covers all the colourful characters who would likely have been carried on a CF boat for any reason involving the resistance movements, though in truth most of the time they were parachuted into the mountainous terrain strongholds of the Partisans.

As for MTB 670, the definitive historical record remains that of the photographs posted by jonco, which are those of a late-war Mediterranean ‘Dog boat’, which quite clearly would not have had its torpedoes, additional guns, state-of-the-art radar, and even its Carley float suddenly exchanged for what can be seen in your photograph.

[jonco]

Re CDSC123 comment
According to the following link

http://www.rjerrard.co.uk/royalnavy/his ... p2009.html

there is photo of FPB 5020 on page 254 of Dog Boats at War - does anybody have a copy for comparison?

[jonco]

Another distant picture of MTB 670 and another crew member - exact dates again unknown but between Oct 44 and July 45.

[Admin]

I think the boat in the photo is FPB 5020 (decommissioned 1956).

Yes, John Lambert's book on the Fairmile D contains a drawing of FPB 5001 (former MTB 780) as of 1954, having the same forward, mid, and aft armament as shown in the photo, together with the clear wheelhouse, and which depicts the whip ariels and a lattice mast. He describes this boat as a control craft for directing the Gay and Dark Class FPBs, and the photo certainly has the look of a post-war craft dedicated to such communications.

[Pioneer]

Admin... John Lambert's book on the Fairmile D contains a drawing of FPB 5001 (former MTB 780) as of 1954, having the same forward, mid, and aft armament as shown in the photo, together with the clear wheelhouse, and which depicts the whip ariels and a lattice mast. He describes this boat as a control craft for directing the Gay and Dark Class FPBs, and the photo certainly has the look of a post-war craft dedicated to such communications.

With kind permission of John Lambert we are able to reproduce this line drawing of FPB 5001 (click for larger image)

Drawing by J. Lambert.

As this is a Plan view, the far set of twin whip aerials would not be drawn.

Toward the end of the book 'Allied Coastal Forces at War. Volume 1' there is a valuable precis of the developement of Radar for CF, later I am hoping to get the title and authour of an important two volume reference source that John Lambert had used.

[davidddnfp]

thanks to everyone for their help on their response to our request to find out more about mtb 670 we never did claim the photo we had was 670 but obviously we needed to clarify it was not it still leaves all the info we have and the story that is building up to be sorted it's frustrating at times we cannot speak to the commander anymore as he is no longer with us another meeting with my researcher at the weekend will take recent info to him and see what he comes up with thanks to jonco for sharing his fathers photos with us it has been a great help will keep everyone posted as we progress

[DARREN]

Hi jonco,

I have been reading some of the posts regarding MTB 670, and have printed them off for a more leisurely read at home. I realise I am some months behind, and don't know how far your investigation has gone, but I came across your post by chance. The reason for my interest, is that my Grandad is Lofty Turner. Unforunately he passed away a long time ago, aged only 56, and I was never at an age to understand about the war, or to ask any questions. I know the servicemen rarely spoke about their experience's and I believe my Grandad was the same, but I have been meaning for some time to try and find some details of his service. My Dad enquired for some details regarding the award of his DSM, but apart from that, all I know is that he was a gunner and stationed in Malta. If your investigations are still current, and you have any history I would be grateful to hear anything you know, or if you could point me in the right direction to start my own investigations I would be very grateful.

[jonco]

Hi Darren,
Good to hear from you. I had rather given up on finding any further information. My dad died 10 years ago (aged 79) and it was only afterwards that I became aware of his photo album. I have posted a number of those photos on this forum and they included the one of 'Lofty' Turner which had the caption of 'on MTB 670'. I presume that Lofty Turner was Able Seaman Wilfred Turner C/JX 374043 RN DSM and I understand your grandad was awarded the DSM for actions in August '44 - see information from Brian Holmes on page 1 of this thread. My father was not on MTB 670 at this time he was busy getting sunk on ML 563 in the Med.

I think others ( Brian Holmes/ Croatian Navy) will be able to add more information - but there are snippets and references in the text above.

I would suggest that you apply for his full service and medals record. These should help you but be prepared that they may not be fully accurate. This is one route to get them http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_rec ... cords.html
Best of luck -
Colin

[DARREN]

Hi Colin,

Thanks very much for your help. My Grandad is indeed Able Seaman Wilfred Turner, and as I said I have very little info about his service during the war, but now I have somewhere to start. I know my Dad is now very keen to find out more, after I rang and told him of your Dad's pictures, and all the correspondence between the various people involved. I am going up to see him at the weekend, so hopefully I will be able to get him registered on this site, and keep him updated on any findings.
Once again, thanks very much for your help and maybe if there is any fresh discoveries we could keep each other informed.
All the best
Darren

[Terry Turner]

Hello Colin, my son Darren informed me of this website and I thought I would post this information about my fathers awards while serving on MTB 670.I had to apply to the Admiralty for this as my dad appears to have been like most servicemen and never spoke of it.He was mentioned in despatches for action on the night of 17/18 July 1944 when MTB670 along with MTB649 and MGB659 sank three enemy vessels and damaged another off Lirica Island. He was awarded the DSM for action on the 25/26th July 1944 when along with MTBs 651 and 667 they engaged a convoy of 1 400-ton flak schooner,2 "I" Boats and 5 "E" Boats off Peljesac and destroyed the schooner,both "I"boats and 3 "E" boats and damaged the other two which escaped.His citation states that as 2pdr gunner he scored direct hits on the schooner which exploded and burnt to the waters edge, an "E" boat which burst into flames amidship and on a second "E" boat that exploded violently a nd hits on an "I"boat with no obvious result. I hope that this will help in your search for information on MTB670 . Good luck Terry Turner

[jonco]

Hi Terry,
Welcome aboard as they say.
Thanks for info - hope the photo I posted is a good likenesss of your dad. I am going to re-check the album (my mother has it at the moment) I vaguely recall the caption said `Lofty Turner on 6 pounder' which ties in with his role. I think @Croatian Navy has done a lot of research on this topic - it maybe worth pm'ing him.

Cheers

Colin

[davidddnfp]

Hi Jonco sorry we have been a long time getting in contact went to visit my mother yesterday bless her at the ripe old age of 84 years old she still remembers various things dad spoke to her about concerning mtb 670 as she has just bought a new laptop i was able to show her this site she looked at the photos you posted out came the magnifying glass fourth photo down of the crew second man in from right with all the black hair [got told off , 'what's up with you boy don't you regonise your father when you see him? sorry mum apparently his hair would stick up like that after they had been swimming they would play a lot of water polo to try and take their minds of things 'i know my cecil when i see him she said, ok mum. cecil was dad's nickname] so we now know dad is in the photo also she said that dad often spoke about lofty must be lofty turner she pointed out there were some funny times one being that dad and lofty had to cook baked beans on toast for everybody 27 people all told so they put the tins of beans in pans of hot water to heat them up but failed to pierce the cans the obvious happened and the cans exploded covering the gally walls in baked beans needless to say the skipper was not very happy ,nice to hear these stories, i am going to see her again in a couple of weeks and have asked her to try and remember what she can and take notes she says she will do her best our researcher is still hard at it moaning about people who think they know and they don't but we will keep persevering best regards david

[jonco]

David - glad your mum is still helping you out after all the years - that's what they do!

[CAM]

13 April 45 British motor torpedo boats MTB-670 and MTB-697 torpedoed and sunk the torpedo boat TA-45.
The London Gazette entry for the second of actions listed may be read online by clicking the link provided. The actual citation reads:

There is a report on this action? Participated in the action of the MGB-658 and MGB-643?

[jonco]

Hello Cam,

I confess I have not looked at this for sometime as I could not find any further information.
I have even had to read back through the post to refresh my memory. I don't recall finding an actual report of the action only the reference to the citation. I will keep looking in my records.

Your question may re-ignite the interest of other participants in the thread but if not maybe you could pm @croatian navy or @davidddnfp as they were doing a lot of research in this area.

Will let you know if I find anything

Cheers
Colin

[CAM]

Trying to reconstruct the course of this action. With the German and Croatian versions I know. Lacking only English descriptions best report.

[CAM]

For an attack on enemy forces in the Planinski channel on 12 Apr 1945
Temporary Lieutenant Eric Hewitt RNVR DSC
Able Seaman Thomas Conway C/JX 559543 RN MID
Able Seaman Henry Harrison C/JX 542116 RN MID
Temporary Sub-Lieutenant James Oliver Young RNVR MID

Means results in a German ship made ​​it MTB-670?
The whole group was commanded by Lieutenant-kommander Montgomery MGB-658, which, together with the MGB-643 fired a German survivor. Germans write that existing U.S. radar allowed the British to get close to 500m, and only time seen German flagship launch torpedoes allowed him at the last moment to evade them by passing them on the bow and stern.

[Peter]

The last post of MTB 670 was of great interest where it mentioned the Planinsky channel and the date April 12th 1945
it was only 2 days before on the 10th that we on MGB647 again with MGB 643 was in action with F Lighters where MGB 647 sustained serious above water damage and remarkably no causalties , and after temporary repairs by shipwrights on HMS Colombo in the port of Zara now Zadar we were able to make the long journey to Island of Ischia off Naples .
There is also a very detailed account of that action of MTB 670 and MGB 643 in Rover Reynolds book " Dog Boats at War " page 234 where he records the later information from German records of the action , and also a letter had received much later from a Yugoslav diving instructor re the siting of the wreck of a sunken German destroyer

[CAM]

There is also a very detailed account of that action of MTB 670 and MGB 643 in Rover Reynolds book " Dog Boats at War " page 234 where he records the later information from German records of the action , and also a letter had received much later from a Yugoslav diving instructor re the siting of the wreck of a sunken German destroyer

I am familiar with an excerpt from the diary of military Birnbaum and memories of one of the officers of the TA-45. Books Reynolds unfortunately I do not have, and the Internet, I found it too, but would like to know about the actions of British sailors from the English source.

[Stanbridge76]

Not sure how this works but here goes.I have been researching my dads war service on MTB670,his name was Bill Wright and he was a stoker.Sadly he died in 1976 aged 51 but I know that he lied about his age and signed up for the Royal Navy at 17 yrs and one of the places he served was in the med during 1943/44.I don't have much info directly from him but I think he was involved in the action when Lofty Turner got the DSM.I have some pictures of him with his shipmates including Lofty and also with others outside The Old Dun Cow Inn in Valetta Malta.I would love to know more so if anyone else is still interested please reply.
PS-I know he also served on MTB 350 in UK coastal waters
Bernie Wright

[retr]

Jonco
I think my Dad Able Seaman Joseph Vaughan DSM Is on the 4th photo fown and 3rd from the right. He was a gunner on MTB 670 +638 I posted in 2012 topic MTB 638. But, never saw a photo of him. My siblings are convinced its him, do you have any more info about the photos please?
Rita

[Peter]

Dear Stanbridge
I am happy to send to you the 2 pages of Dog Boats at War that gives details of the action of MGB 670 ' The pages also include the last action of MGB 647 on which served as Radar operator. I also new the author of that book
Cheers
Peter Bickmore

[Stanbridge76]

Hello Peter
Thanks for the info,I have the same book.I am hoping others will see my post so that I may be able to put names to his mates shown in the photo's I have found at my mums,still with us at 96,I am not very computer savvy but hope I can post them here later.Most of the info I have about where he served has come from the locations shown on his payment records sent to me by MOD Navy Command...I hope they are accurate!
I know my dad came back to England in Nov 1944 on compassionate leave to see his brother who was injured when Vauxhall in Luton was bombed but was too late to see him as he died the day before he arrived.My mum said that he was unable to rejoin MTB670 which upset him further and that's when I think he joined MTB350.
Bernie

[retr]

Stanbridge76
Link below photo of my Dad AB Joseph Vaughan DSM he is on right end and think its in Malta. He served on MTB 670 +638 topic in MTB 638 in forum.

download/file.php?id=401&mode=view

If you have any photos to share it would be great.
Thanks Rita

[retr]

Hi Jonco sorry we have been a long time getting in contact went to visit my mother yesterday bless her at the ripe old age of 84 years old she still remembers various things dad spoke to her about concerning mtb 670 as she has just bought a new laptop i was able to show her this site she looked at the photos you posted out came the magnifying glass fourth photo down of the crew second man in from right with all the black hair [got told off , 'what's up with you boy don't you regonise your father when you see him? sorry mum apparently his hair would stick up like that after they had been swimming they would play a lot of water polo to try and take their minds of things 'i know my cecil when i see him she said, ok mum. cecil was dad's nickname] so we now know dad is in the photo also she said that dad often spoke about lofty must be lofty turner she pointed out there were some funny times one being that dad and lofty had to cook baked beans on toast for everybody 27 people all told so they put the tins of beans in pans of hot water to heat them up but failed to pierce the cans the obvious happened and the cans exploded covering the gally walls in baked beans needless to say the skipper was not very happy ,nice to hear these stories, i am going to see her again in a couple of weeks and have asked her to try and remember what she can and take notes she says she will do her best our researcher is still hard at it moaning about people who think they know and they don't but we will keep persevering best regards david

David
My Dad is 3rd from right next to your Dad AB Joseph Vaughan DSM he was a pom pom gunner and served on many MTB'S including 670. I did a topic on MTB 638 in 2012 but this is the first photo I have seen of him on oard eith his crew mates. Do you have any more info/photo's

Retr - Rita Moylan

[Peter]

It is with great interest I view the picture of that Radar equipment on a platform supported by 4 legs on what was a D Boat perhaps doing trials
This Radar type was designed for small ships in the 1970's by the Company that I was working after my release from the RN, Kelvin Hughes later Smiths Industries, and also Decca Industries. The attached picture was taken in 1989 aboard MTB102 (whom we CFVA knew very well) , it shows a similar outline to that shown in the picture in the blog ,these aerials could be 4ft or 6ft in length.
So may the picture be a Radar during trials. I am sure time will tell

[retr]

I have previously posted questions under ML's 122 and 563 in relation to the service record of my late father William Aubrey Jones JX 300350. His service record showed him on numerous bases but only on tenders ML122(Home Waters), ML 563 ( Mediterranean) and HMS Grecian ( Home Waters - post hostilities). There are a number of gaps between the the service record and verbal recollections and war-time photographs which have intrigued me. On the suggestion of Admin I applied for his full service records. Unfortunately the reply only showed the same tenders served on above. However, his medals record shows him on MTB 670 from Oct 44 to Jun 45 which ties in with a number of photos in his war-time album. These photos also include MTB 697 and MTB 634 and some crew members including ¬Lofty'Turner, Terry Feenan and Alf Cook . Refer to samples at the end of this post.

The following entry appears in war diaries :

13 April 45 British motor torpedo boats MTB-670 and MTB-697 torpedoed and sunk the torpedo boat TA-45.

Admin/Brian Holmes has kindly supplied the following info in a separate topic:
MTB 670

Design Type: Fairmile D, Motor Torpedo Boat
Construction Yard: Wallasea Bay Yacht Yard of Rochford, UK
Completion Date: Mar 1943
Notes: Lost on passage Malta-Alexandria 30 January 1946

For operations ln the Adriatic and the Aegean
Temporary Lieutenant Eric Hewitt RNVR DSC
Able Seaman Wilfred Turner C/JX 374043 RN DSM
Able Seaman Leslie Byhurst Boswell C/JX 301773 RN MID
Temporary Sub-Lieutenant John King Finlay RNVR MID
Petty Officer Motor Mechanic Andrew Newall Goplen P/MX 117307 RN MID
Able Seaman James Thomas William Holdway C/JX 373750 RN MID

For an attack on enemy forces in the Planinski channel on 12 Apr 1945
Temporary Lieutenant Eric Hewitt RNVR DSC
Able Seaman Thomas Conway C/JX 559543 RN MID
Able Seaman Henry Harrison C/JX 542116 RN MID
Temporary Sub-Lieutenant James Oliver Young RNVR MID

For the surrender of German naval forces in the Adriatic
Temporary Sub-Lieutenant John King Finlay RNVR MID

The London Gazette entry for the second of actions listed may be read online by clicking the link provided. The actual citation reads:
For courage, audacity and skill shown whilst serving in the 59th M.T.B. Flotilla, in an engagement with a superior German force on the I2th-13th April off the coast of Jugoslavia during the course of which an enemy destroyer was sunk.
MTB 670 - Ancona.jpg
MTB 670 - Ancona - `loading fish'.jpg
MTB 670 in dry dock Ancona.jpg
MTB 670 - Some of the crew on the foc'sle.jpg
Lofty Turner on MTB 670.jpg
Terry Feenan - MTB 670.jpg

Hi Jonco
Retr here from 2012 researching my Dad's Naval history. AB Joseph Vaughan DSM.
I was looking recently and saw him in your photo of "some of the crew on foc'sle" he is 3rd from right with his cap on back of his head.
1st photo I have seen of him on his MTB with crew members! Amazing.
Any further info would be really helpful and my relative is trying to make the photo a bit clearer so I will let you know how it goes.