Coastal Forces Veterans

Hi everyone,

This is my first post on this forum. I've recently started to research what my Grandad (Sydney Pryke) did in during the war. I know from what I've been told by my parents that he was on MTBs and I think also MGBs and I can tell from his Service Record that he spent the majority of his time at HMS Beehive.

According to his Service Record he was MTB03, MTB44, MTB45, MTB100 and MTB18.

But after September 1941 it makes no more mention of any Royal Navy boats he was on. Leaving a 4 year gap until it says that he was posted on the E-Boat S.205 on 1st June 1945 - presumably that was for testing and trials.

I know that he got badly wounded at one point and ended up in Felixstowe hospital. In fact he had bullets or shrapnel lodged in his back for the rest of his life.

I can also tell from his Service Record that he was issued a "Hurt Certificate" on 7th October 1942, there seems to have been an engagement that boats from Beehive participated in on the 6th of October that resulted in some casualties, so I am wondering if that is related to the "Hurt Certificate".

Can anyone offer any help and advice on if it's possible to get more information, and if so how?

Many Thanks

Richard

Hello Richard

Welcome to the forum, and thank you for your enquiry.

Do you have dates for his various known postings please as that may have some bearing on what boat, and what action may have been involved in his injuries. The hurt certificate though issued on 7 October, 1942 may refer to an earlier event. MTB 03 along with MTB 18 were part of the 1st MTB Flotilla which had been at Malta but was recalled in 1939, travelling back to the UK through the French canal system. MTBs 44 & 45 were part of the 5th MTB Flotilla which was based at Dover. MTB 44 was sunk by gun-fire from a German surface ship in the Dover Straits on 7 August 1942. MTB 100 was part of the 3rd MTB Flotilla. If the dates for his service with each boat are available that would help me determine which action may have been involved.

This is recorded within the Admiralty War diary for the 7th August, 1942

Last night 6/7 Force A, M.T.Bs 44 (S.O) 45, and 48 with Force B., M.G.Bs 330 (S.O.) 331 and 324 in company were sent to patrol vicinity of N.E. Varne in anticipation of continued eastward passage of vessels which had arrived Boulogne yesterday morning but whose identity could not be established by air R/C. At 2310 R.D.F. reported one large enemy vessel with some fifteen escorts leaving Boulogne northeastwards at 8 knots. Forces A and B proceeded to intercept north of Blanc Nez at 0020 crossing ahead and engaging from inshore, but without M.T.Bs being able to get into an attacking position owing to very heavy fire from energy vessels and continuous star shell from shore which commenced ¼ hour before our forces closed the enemy. M.T.B.44 was soon disabled and, being close to enemy coast, crew had to abandon ship after destroying their vessel by fire. Crew was however located in Carley Floats half an hour later and embarked by M.G.B. 330 after enemy convoy had passed. M.T.B.45 out of control with C.O. wounded collided with M.G.B.324 who, despite also having action damage, was able to tow M.T.B 45 back to harbour.

There are two photographs from the IWM collection showing MTBs 44 & 45 in The Ferry Dock at Dover (HMS Wasp).

WITH THE ROYAL NAVAL COASTAL FORCE, DOVER. 11 FEBRUARY 1942, DOVER.. Image: IWM (A 7442) IWM Non Commercial License

DOVER NAVAL BASE. 1941.. Image: IWM (A 9921) IWM Non Commercial License

Regards
Admin

Hi Admin

Thank you for very prompt reply, and the interesting information you have provided.

Here are the dates I've been able to extract from his Service Record n.b. the handwriting is poor in places, but I believe I'm accurate:

Vernon (Hornet) 18 Oct 1940
Hornet [Oct 1940]
— (MTB 03) 23 Jan 1941
Attack 29 Jan 1941
Hornet 9 Feb 1941
Boscawen (MTB 03)
( I think ) 29 Jan 1941
Hornet 9 Feb 1941
— (MTB 44) 2 Apr 1941
Beehive 19 May 1941
— (MTB 45) 31 Jul 1941
— (MTB 100) 3 Sep 1941
— (MTB 18) 14 Sep 1941
Hornet 19 Dec 1941
Beehive 9 Mar 1942
Beehive 14 May 1942
— 21 Jul 1943
— (S.205) 1 Jun 1945

Kind Regards,

Richard

Thanks Richard

I hope you don't mind but I've just removed the quote to make the thread a bit clearer.

Does his service record mention when he joined, and or have dates for when and where he trained e.g. Collingwood or Raleigh?? That is, anything prior to 18 October, 1940. And was he regular navy, rather than 'Hostilities Only' as it was known?

Admin

Thanks Admin,

He joined on 21st September 1938, where he was originally posted at "Victory 1". He joined the cruiser, HMS Suffolk on 27th September 1939 and was severly injured (burned) after it was bombed in a Norwegian Fjord on 19th April 1940.

After HMS Suffolk he went back to "Victory 1" and then went between HMS Hornet, HMS Boscawen and HMS Attack (all of which I thought were training bases) before joining HMS Beehive on 19th May 1941.

I believe he spent most the war at HMS Beehive.

I think his Service Record does have gaps and information missing in it. I understand from family that he was aboard HMS Rodney, I think before the war started, and very briefly went on submarines, neither of these are mentioned though.

Thanks for your kind help and I hope this extra info is useful. Between joining MTB18 in December 1941 and the end of the war, there's nothing really of note in his Service Record except for his "Hurt Certificate" on 7th October 1942 (mentioned above).

Kinds Regards,

Richard

Thanks again Richard

A provisional picture is starting to emerge.

He was regular pre-war navy and is being posted, or has asked to join MTBs at the recently formed HMS Hornet, at Gosport. Coastal Forces was just about to formerly commence with the appointment of Piers Kekewich as Rear Admiral Coastal Forces in late October 1940. Prior to that the MTBs had simply been known as MTBs—being addressed that way in official correspondence. MTB 03, would have been back from the Mediterranean for over a year by this time, being literally the third MTB constructed for the Navy in August 1936, and as such, was soon to be pensioned off along with the other early MTBs to become Mine Attendant Craft.

The Coastal Forces base HMS Attack at Portland had just been commissioned in January of 1941, with Boscawen being the Regular Navy base there. Portland was home to anti-submarine research and training, and is where the Motor Anti-Submarine Boats (MASBs) had been situated, which along with the MTBs at Hornet, and those early MLs built or building, were to all come under the umbrella of the newly formed Coastal Forces in late 1940. MTB 44 was one of the new Vosper MTBs which was completed on 1st April, 1941, so it would appear your grandfather joined the crew of this boat from new. I'll check in the Red Lists later when the boats of the 5th MTB officially formed and took up station at Beehive (Felixstowe). The 5th MTB comprised MTB 38 along with 41–48. It would seem he remained in Coastal Forces from that point until the end of the war, so it's a question of understanding what boat or boats he was appointed to throughout that time. Does his service record provide any indication of his rank, and or specialism, such as signals, telegraphy, or coxswain?

Admin

Hi Admin

He was a Telegraphist for most of the war.

So he was an Ordinary Telegraphist on the cruiser HMS Suffolk prior to joining Coastal Forces and by the end of the war, at HMS Beehive, he was a Leading Telegraphist.

I've a couple of questions, if that's OK

If a sailor in Coastal Forces was wounded enough (Grandad had German bullets lodged in his back most of his life), would that tend to mean they were reassigned to a shore based role?

Also, what was the lifespan of a boat in Coastal Forces?
I would imagine they could become obsolete pretty quickly in wartime, not to mention the damage and wear and tear caused by racing around the North Sea at high speeds in all weather!

Many thanks again for your help...

Richard

Hello Richard

Sorry, I missed the part about Telegraphist in the title! but it's useful to learn of his Leading status.

The Admiralty's Red Lists which show deployment and status of boats provides this detail:

13th April, 1941 Red List shows MTB 44 at Dover, having arrived there on 7th April. Only MTBs 42, 43 & 44 of the 5th MTB had been completed at this point.

Following editions of the Red List chart the following:

27th April 1941: MTB 44 is at Dover under Beehive
11th May 1941: MTB 44 & MTB 45 are at Dover
25th May 1941: MTB 44 is at Dover under Lynx (Dover) and MTB 45 is at Dover under Hornet (Portsmouth)
8th June 1941: MTB 44 is at Harwich under Lynx
6th July 1941: MTB 44 is at Harwich under Beehive, MTB 45 is at Portsmouth under Hornet
17th August 1941: MTB 44 (Beehive) & MTB 45 (Hornet) are at Harwich
31st August 1941: MTB 44 (Beehive) & MTB 45 (Beehive) are at Harwich
28th September 1941: MTB 44 (Beehive) is at Harwich, MTB 45 (Lynx) is at Dover.

At this point MTBs 44, 45, 46, 47 & 48 are shown as:– To be transferred temporarily to Dover Command

So basically from shortly after its completion until its loss in August 1942, MTB 44 never actually saw Felixstowe, being at Harwich or Dover continuously. The same was true of MTB 45. MTB 44 continues to be shown for Beehive whilst at Dover, finally coming under Lynx by 18th January, 1942.

MTB 18 was one of the very early British Power Boat MTBs, similar in style to MTB 03, whilst MTB 100 was a one-off type originally designed as a Motor Minesweeper (MMS 51) which was converted to a Motor Torpedo Boat (MTB 100) between 1939 and March 1940. So this too was an early boat, and by 13th September 1941, it together with MTBs 14 and 18 formed the 1st MTB Flotilla at Beehive (Felixstowe), along with MTBs 71 & 72, both of which were Paid Off for repairs. I don't believe this flotilla performed much in the way of frontline duty, if any, being comprised of boats that were later mothballed or repurposed.

It would seem then that he was with MTB 44 at Portsmouth until it left for Dover, and with MTB 45 until it left to join MTB 44 at Harwich. Then he possibly spent some months at Felixstowe with the 1st MTB, before returning to Portsmouth prior to returning to Felixstowe in the Spring of 1942. So that leaves the question of what boat(s) he was serving with at Beehive from March 1942 onwards, and when exactly he sustained his injuries. Given he was treated at Felixstowe this rules out having been injured during his earlier service, so I will look next at what boats were at Felixstowe during the period that he may have served on, even if it was just a temporary assignment.

In answer to your questions, I don't know much about hurt certificates, or how sailors were assessed after being injured, but I do have a correspondent who has previously contacted the Librarian of the Institute of Naval Medicine's Historic Collections, so I am looking to get an introduction made by him, so as I can email them on the matter. One thing which I do know is, the telegraphist's cabins onboard short boats (Vosper MTB, British Power Boat MGB) were quite cramped, and the boats when at speed into a head sea, albeit one they were capable of being in at all, would provide a fairly rough ride, so if you had a serious back injury which you were still recovering from, then that would not be an environment you could likely work in.

As for the boats: the early pre-war designs proved ineffective and were soon repurposed. The MASB concept never worked out and they were converted to early gunboat (MGBs) until the arrival of the British Power Boat 71' MGBs, at which point they too were mothballed, although being very fast boats still, some stripped of their armament were still in service as MASBs in 1944, being used as Fast Despatch Boats and the like during D-Day. The Vospers underwent upgrades in their design, and the short boats were joined by the larger D-Type 'Dog Boats' on the East Coast by Autumn of 1943, so the fleet tended to be a mixed bag of newer boats with older ones, with some of the earlier types hanging on until the end of the war. Engines would be overhauled on a regular basis, and armaments upgraded to keep everything going.

Admin

This is the only action I have been able to find for the date closest to 7th October, 1942. The details are drawn from the Admiralty Diary for 6th October, 1942. MTBs 29, 30 & 70 were part of the 4th MTB Flotilla based at Lowestoft (Mantis) while MGBs 75 & 76 were part of the 8th MGB Flotilla based at Felixstowe (Beehive). MGBs 61 & 64 were part of the 6th MGB Flotilla at Beehive

Engagement off Flushing One E-boat destroyed. M.T.B.29 M.G.B. 76 lost. M.G.B. 75 damaged.

Following is preliminary report of C/F activity night 5/6. At approx. 1830/5 information was received from V.A. Dover that a large M/V with escort had left Boulogne and was proceeding N. E. M.G.Bs. 75 and 76 with M.T.Bs. 29, 30, 70 and 72 were ordered to proceed to vicinity 51° 23’ N. 03° 00' E. with the object of interception and sailed at approx. 1945/5. While in above position at approx, midnight hydrophone contact was made with highspeed engines approaching from S.W. Acting on orders to avoid patrols forces moved slowly off to the N. W. but 3 enemy torpedo-boats and numerous E-boats appeared to port.

The units increased speed and altered course to the North with the gunboats engaging to port. The enemy torpedo-boats fired star shell over the units and E-boats alone followed up but contact was soon lost.

M.G.B 76 then ordered units to R/V 5 miles North of the action area.

The units having R/Vd. and cut were immediately attacked from the S.W. by numerous E-boats. A very confused action ensued while the units were disengaging. Some hits were observed on the E-boats and one was later sighted heavily on fire with an enemy torpedo boat standing by. Shortly after the vessel on fire blew up at approx. 0100/6.

At 0042 a collision occurred between M.T.Bs. 29 and 30. At 0046 M.T.B. 30 asked for M.T.B. 29’s penants and received reply "O.K." At 0050 M.T.B. 30 ordered M.T.B. 29 to return to harbour and received an "R" at 0052. During this exchange of signals the burning ship was observed blazing fiercely. During the fire M.G.B. 76 called for penants and received an answer from all 5 boats, including M.T.B.29. M.G.B. 76 ordered all vessels to R/V 10 miles N.W. of the action area but this proved to be impracticable owing to boats being scattered. Consequently all boats were ordered to return to harbour. During the second action M.G.B. 76 received hits in the petrol tank compartment which caught fire. This fire appeared to be brought under control but left the boat permeated with petrol fumes. At approx. 0640 when 4 miles S.W. of 54A buoy the boat blew up without warning, the wreck burning fiercely.

M.G.Bs. 61 and 64 returning from patrol sighted the fire, proceeded to investigate, and rescued the whole ship’s company except the motor mechanic who was killed. M.T.B. 30 received considerable collision damage to stem. M.T.B. 70 received superficial action damage. M.G.B. 75 received severe underwater damage forward and one serious casualty. No torpedoes fired. (C. in C. Nore, 1752A/6). Add to 1752A/6. Continuous air search through out the day has failed to reveal any trace of M.T.B. 29. She must now be considered lost. (C. in C. Nore, 2310A/6).

Admin,

This is brilliant information.

It makes sense that he may have been involved in the engagement near Flushing on the 6th of October 1942; received injuries from that, and that was the why the Hurt Certificate was issued the following day.

But is there any source of information that would put him there as his Service Record seems sketchy at best!

I really appreciate your help here. Does the site take donations or is there a Coastal Forces charity I could make a donation to?

Thanks again,

Richard